I was asked to comment on the new terrace roof installed on bldg 3.
I have over 30 years of experience in the construction industry, building primarily commercial structures. My Company is licenced and State Certified in the State of Florida (CBC1254369) in which I am the qualified business agent. I have received certification in FLASH ( Federal Alliance for Safe Housing ) and have taken and passed all courses for Wind & Hurricane Mitigation Inspector Training in the State of Florida.
The terrace roof surface recently applied has a nice appearance...however...I have serious concerns regarding the following :
Coping metal and scuppers : the purpose of coping metal is to cap off and direct rain water to the scuppers. It is generally installed to be 2 to 3 inches above the finish roof surface. It should be installed over a previously sloped subsurface..NOT installed prior to roof leveling. This procedure has made the top of coping and top of roof surface at almost the same elevation, therefore, water will flow over the coping and down the building face.
Roofing assembly : my concern here is that the leveling compound has been directly applied over the existing bituminous roof membrane. There is little or no adhesion and we have basically a floating floor/roof assembly. My concerns here are that hurricane uplift forces that affect flat roofs in high locations could actually lift the roof and send concrete and tile flying.
Keep in mind...these are my observations and questions..I could be wrong and only ask to see certified Engineers reports and specifications on such procedures.
Ceramic Tile surface : I have never seen ceramic tile installed with grout on a roof surface. I am concerned with the movement, deflection, sunlight and various weather conditions that the tile grout will crack. The expansion joints they installed do not run continuous to each end.
We have a complex situation at Coral Beach in that roofing is also a patio...we also have a complex deflection problem that must be overcome for proper storm water drainage. This is why it is imperative to consult with roofing design Engineers that are familiar with not only civil engineering but engineering and design of structures within High Velocity Wind Zones.
Marty Untch
December 20, 2007 6:43 AM
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9 comments:
Dear Marty:
Thank you for your ongoing concern and information about the quality of the work being performed at Coral Beach. I am curious....do you think that you will receive a copy of the engineering report? I wouldn't mind receiving a copy of it as well. If you do get it, please send me a copy. I believe that you have my office email address.
Beth Stengel
Thank you, Marty! It is beyond me why the powers-that-be would not consult with someone who has the depth and breadth of experience you do especially you are living right under their noses. As far as I'm concerned, we should be utilizing all of the talent available from as many owners who are willing to help out.
This is an example of either the arrogance of power or misplaced ego.
Thanks Marty for your insightful overview. I would like to build on your assessment and repeat some points made previously:
1. Tacoma Engineering, the firm who provided the specifications for the Spalling & Painting Project (which included the drainage of terrace roofs) advised that:
a) CB should not use ceramic tiles in this application because:
i. they thought better systems were available;
ii. of additional unnecessary excessive weight; and
iii. of the flexing which has and does occur in our concrete planks. This has 'popped' tiles twice in Building 1. Not a huge problem indoors but potentially very serious outdoors.
b) Mr. Will Turon, after advising me that he could not discuss our matter in depth because of confidentiality specified by Mr. Galiano, did volunteer this comment, I quote: "I would not want to be a guinea pig for an experimental system."
2. Tacoma also stated that they preferred that the roofing be done from scratch, that is, that the existing membrane be stripped off but that Mr. Galiano said that option was not in the terms of reference.
3, It is true that the terrace roofs have been problematic and leaky for a long time BUT never on the scale experienced commencing with the installation of the fascia and scupper boxes. Thirtythree apartments have reported leaks!
4. There is and always has been since March of 2005 too much of Mr. Galiano's ego in this solution. I don't pretend to have the answers and would definitely retain the services of an engineering roofing specialist but for a minute imagine how simple it would have been to re-install eaves troughs (gutters). It is a simple proven system which easily accommodates grading needs for drainage. Sure, they are more vunerable to hurricanes but imagine the amount of damage if the tiled 'floating' roofs lifted off in a Force 3 hurricane!
5. Using a sports analogy, it is time to change coaches. Thank him for the cosmetic changes and move on.
Ted Mulvihill
Mr. Untch:
If I understand your explanation regarding the terraces, do I as an owner who lives right next to a terrace need to be concerned.
If they decided to tile my terrace, is it likely that these tiles can break loose and fly through my window or door?
Is that what you are saying?
Owners tile their little terraces now! Can you tell me what makes that so different?
Have you been provided with these specifications you asked for.
Mr. Galiano said he would not address the blog, in which case maybe you should write him a nice letter requesting such information?
Concerned Owner
Hi Anon:
I’d like to answer your question for now and then Marty can elaborate on it with more technical information. The distinction to think about is the concept of a “floating floor”. When balconies are tiled great care is taken to ensure a proper bond. This includes stripping away any coverings to the bare concrete plank. Additionally, surfaces which have adhesives residue will be “chipped” to get to exposed concrete. A latex bonding agent will then be applied and the thin set and ceramic tile added to complete the finish.
In Mr. Galiano’s experimental roofing system, what has been done is to add additional plies on top of the membrane….something that the Tacoma engineer recommended not doing. The roofing was done it two parts. In one small section, chicken wire was fastened to the membrane, which was topped with the ‘light weight foamed” concrete for drainage grading. The thin set and ceramic tile were then added. Observers have reported that no chicken wire was fastened to the 5th floor terrace.
No one can predict with any certainty whether your apt is at greater risk. Of one thing I am sure. Unless Mr. Galiano can produce engineering roofing specialist opinion either recommending or approving this experimental design, owners must demand a halt to any further application to the terrace roofs.
I am reluctant to give you unsolicited advice but here goes. Anybody who ends up with this roofing system next to their apt would be prudent to install hurricane shutters before July and the start of hurricane season.
Ted Mulvihill
So if we understand what Ted and Marty are trying to make us aware of: Coral Beach may be the winner in the 'World's Largest Frisbee Contest'?
Didn't Phil Galiano just tell us in five pages of boasting that if we had the nerve to sign our name he would answer the questions?????? Did anyone else see that letter? OK, Mr. Galiano, Treasurer and B&G, we have all seen the letters posted with names and very good questions asked. Now, what is the new rule that you will impose before answering questions?
I have tile on my little terrace/balcony, my question again is this going to be a problem as well? Why is this different then the roof? It's all outside.
Many owners have tiles on their terrace. I just want to know that we will be okay?
Thank you again
Dera Mr. Untch:
This owner would like to know if you have received the specifictions that you asked for?
I don't want them to continue work until someone with qualifications, reviews it...
Tile on the small balconies will not present major problems and will most likely in my oppinion be fine if they are properly applied as Ted described. They could present a problem if the balcony is over an apartment with a pushed out sliding glass door....which is not allowed now, but was done frequently in the past. In that case the balcony is a patio and a roof for the apartment below. Grout can and will crack and water could find its way under the tile and saturating the uderside which may leak. Tiles could still pop loose as they do on the floor throughout the facility and become flying objects in a hurricane. My preference on balconies would be outdoor carpet or an epoxy roof coat painted on material that provides waterproofing and a traffic surface. Balconies are small and somewhat protected by their design location and uplift forces are not much of an issue on them...I would also seek out professional oppinions on this procedure as well for future renovations. When applying tile to balconies there should also be provisions made to slope the floor surface so water drains off...tile should never have any pooling or standing water on it. Sometimes this is difficult to do on the balconies as the existing sliding glass doors are set too low to increase the back side elevation of the slab. That is why if sliding glass doors are replaced they should be undersized in height and placed up on a leveled concrete mud sill...most of the door openings slope 1.25 to 1.50 inch in 12 feet of span following the deflection of the slabs. Coral Beach should establish a building code of procedures such as mentioned, in detail so all the renovations being considered by owners will be properly implimented to the difficulties our facility has in reconstruction. Phil has developed some good building code applications and permit structure for individual renovations, but more should be considered for the future. This would take a good team of qualified individuals and may require some professional oppinions as well....we have many such individuals at Coral Beach who are more than willing to assist any Board if asked..
Marty Untch
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