Monday, December 31, 2007

Have a wonderful 2008

Port Lucaya is already crowded and it's only 4pm....

I hope to get photos of the celebrations tonight and tomorrow evening will be Junkanoo time downtown. I should definitely be able to get some pics to help you get some idea of what this year's street party looks like - this is the time I always feel I should invest in ear plugs.

I hope that 2008 is a really good year for you and yours .

ps: Is it me or are the years passing by ever more quickly?

Sunday, December 30, 2007

Comment on Terrace Experiment

Reference: Owners Forum; December 28, 2007. Meeting Notes by Pat Lihou

Dear owners:

As a member of the Structural Deflection Committee (SDC), I am compelled to correct a statement made by Mr. Rufa in response to questions by Mr. Periera regarding the 5th floor terrace roof experiment. Mr. Rufa is quoted as saying: "The CBH Deflection Committee had looked at the problem and resolved that 'you can do anything you want up there'.

Unfortunately Mr. Rufa is mistaken. That is not at all what Tacoma Engineering advised the SDC and Coral Beach.

Please find below the key paragraphs from the Tacoma Engineering Report. As you will note, Tacoma's opinion strongly cautions Coral Beach and is not as stated by Mr. Rufa. Mr. Rufa's and Mr. Galiano's misunderstanding is potentially dangerous as well as costly.


EXCERPTS COPIED DIRECTLY FROM THE TACOMA REPORT

Our calculations indicate that the net safety factor required by A23.3 has not been achieved. In fact the design strength is in the order of 92% of that required by the code.

Reserve Strength:

Based on the following dead loads:
- slab weight 55 psf
- topping weight (3”) 37 psf
- floor, ceiling and partition allowance 15 psf
Our calculated net total reserve allowance for live load is 85 psf. This means that the slabs can be expected to collapse if the live load exceeds 85 psf (200 people in a studio apartment or 300 people in a one-bedroom).

FLOOR TILES:
In our opinion, ceramic floor tiles may be used to replace carpet and underlay. However, the maximum tile thickness allowed should 1 centimeter (3/8”) and no leveling grout can be allowed.

I would be pleased to send the entire Tacoma Engineering Report by e-mail to any owner upon request. May I also draw your attention to commentary on this subject of the experimental roofing system by Mr. Untch and myself? Please view it on Coralbeachhotelnews.blogspot.com/.

I wish all friends and neighbours at Coral Beach a very happy and peaceful New Year.

Ted Mulvihill
ejmulvi@sympatico.ca
416 243 9277
Apt 3603

Jerry & Vivian Illerbrun news

Jerry & Vivian have arrived at CBH and are in need of sun and relaxation as they recover from surgery. Jerry has withdrawn from his candidature for the 2008 Board. I am sure all Owners will wish them both a speedy and full return to health and that their time at CBH this winter is just the tonic they need. And a big thank you for all their past efforts on Owners' behalf too.

Friday, December 28, 2007

Food, Fun and Forum

First, the food - a potluck supper will be held at the Pool Deck (weather permitting) on January 3rd from 5pm. The BBQ will be available for all to use. Bring your own food and drink plus plates, forks etc.

Then the fun - George Turner (2314) reminds everyone - women too - that the Hobby Shop Club annual fees are $20 and that all sorts of useful equipment, plus lockers, work benches etc are available to Members. An additional plus is that some of the 'hobbyists' will be delighted to help newcomers in their efforts to make or fix things.

And finally, the Forum. About 50 Owners attended with Board Members Bruno Rufa, Jacques Delorme and Lorna Taylor. Mark Hardy was also in attendance and answered the many questions from owners on the Finances.

I will be writing a summary of the Forum and emailing it to Owners in the next few days. In the meantime, when asked to clarifiy the proxy form and what is or is not acceptable, Bruno Rufa said that the Board has no intention of setting out to find fault - as long as the intention of the Owner is clear, the paper will be accepted. This allows for the crossing out those nominees' names that one does not wish to vote for and putting a tick, check, cross or ring around the vote box. As long as no more than 7 candidates are marked, the vote will be accepted.

Thursday, December 27, 2007

Owner's Forum

Notices posted around the lobbies today inform Owners that there will be a Forum tomorrow, Friday, at 4pm in the Conference Room.

And I hear tell that we may have a pot luck supper next week - watch out for confirmation!

Tis the season.....


Another glorious morning on the best beach in the world!
Yesterday the ocean temp was 74f and the pool 71f but the sun was shining and the young children happily playing about in the pool certainly didn't seem to think it was anything less than perfect, while the many beachgoers were laying in the sun and frolicking in the water too. Great to see so many people about.
I heard the 'clack' of the shuffleboard a couple of days ago but I have been told that the surface is in need of a jet wash to remove the lichen that's grown over the summer. Mind you, in the past three days I have heard of two bad accidents with jet washers, one of them being used by our men on the roof and the water jet hitting Ali in the thigh, enough to cause him to limp for a few days! I hope it didn't put too much of a dampener on his holiday celebrations.
The pile of envelopes that were addressed to Owners and at the Front Desk last week are nowhere to be seen, and we haven't received one in our pigeon hole nor have noticed any others around the boxes either. It is now 30 days to the AGM - make sure you are up to date with your accounts by month end! And then it will be time to start thinking about celebrating 2008's arrival.

Monday, December 24, 2007

Happy Christmas


Well, we had a lovely gathering in the lobby - lots of families showed up, Owners, Guests & Friends - we shared great conviviality and we hope that we can do this again....in the meantime - have a wonderful Christmas Day - I hope Santa fills your stocking!

Proxies

Just a quick note to say that if any Owner has not received their proxy form yet, please let me know and I will arrange to have another sent to you asap!

Sunday, December 23, 2007

Letter to owner re rentals

I have posted the complete letter sent to Ms Vander Woude regarding her rentals at CBH earlier this year. I understand that the Board was asked to clarify exactly what documents they needed for their records and this information has not been forthcoming. Have other Owners who rent their units been asked to provide these documents? If so, can you let us know how you resolved the issue. Thank you.




Maggie Vanderwoude Sept. 6 / 07

3104 & 1109

Mrs. Vanderwoude

In the past year there have been a multitude of complaints and inquires to the Bahamian Authorities regarding Coral Beach policies as out lined in the Articles Of Association. These Articles are registered and recognized by the Bahamian Authorities as being the rules and regulations that all Owner must abide by at Coral Beach.

The numerous complaints, all of them frivolous have brought attention to Coral Beach and in turn to some individual Owners. It is imperative that Coral Beach as a Bahamian Company does not inadvertently through its owner’s contravene Bahamian law.

There has been a number of inquires to the Rental Approval Committee at Coral Beach in regards to your rental practices involving your two units. We are confident, considering the amount of time that you have been in the rental business that you have your affairs in order. However our records are incomplete regarding this matter.

At this point Coral Beach would require from you verification and an acknowledgement from the proper Bahamian Authorities that your rental business is registered and that your two units are registered as investment property, generating an income.

Please forward the requested information as soon as possible. Coral Beach does not want to be put in a situation where it would have to further address this matter.

Board of Directors – Coral Beach

Saturday, December 22, 2007

Christmas has arrived!!!!





Yes, yesterday evening a group of Owners got together and happily dressed the tree, switched on the seasonal music and generally enjoyed themselves decorating the lobby and Front Desk. I hear that Security is delighted too! There was chat and comradeship still going on at 10pm! The lobby now looks just the right, inviting place to have a party, and this morning a bright and cheerful poster was put up around the buildings telling everyone to come and join the fun on Christmas Eve from 5 till 7. So, bring your favourite tippple and a plate of appetisers and meet up with old and new friends, Owners and their Guests. See you there...
Today we also got a series of accounts from Mark Hardy, the P & L accounts from August 07 - Nov. 07 and the Balance Sheet for the same period. These are much easier to read this time and Mark has made them even more user friendly by using both black and red ink. Now we need those Owners with professional expertise to help the rest of us understand them fully.
The piles of stuffed envelopes that have been out on the Front Desk counter for the past week have almost disappeared today, although there are about 20 still sitting there. I trust these are the documents yet to be circulated to Owners in support of the Nominees for the Board of Directors Election at the AGM, together with the other supporting documents, such as last year's Minutes, that Owners need to have sight of prior to that AGM. 35 days to go!
A beautiful day again today with just a few clouds now and then. The ocean remains at 76f but the pool has dropped to 71f. There were quite a few people enjoying the beach - it always looks so much better when the sun bunnies are doing what they do best!


Thursday, December 20, 2007

Bruno is back in town!

Yes, the President escaped the snows of Ontario and has arrived in balmy Freeport and as I write at 7pm est, is enjoying a party in Building 1 with at least one alternate!

Comments by Marty Untch on Roof/Terrace Experiment

I was asked to comment on the new terrace roof installed on bldg 3.

I have over 30 years of experience in the construction industry, building primarily commercial structures. My Company is licenced and State Certified in the State of Florida (CBC1254369) in which I am the qualified business agent. I have received certification in FLASH ( Federal Alliance for Safe Housing ) and have taken and passed all courses for Wind & Hurricane Mitigation Inspector Training in the State of Florida.

The terrace roof surface recently applied has a nice appearance...however...I have serious concerns regarding the following :

Coping metal and scuppers : the purpose of coping metal is to cap off and direct rain water to the scuppers. It is generally installed to be 2 to 3 inches above the finish roof surface. It should be installed over a previously sloped subsurface..NOT installed prior to roof leveling. This procedure has made the top of coping and top of roof surface at almost the same elevation, therefore, water will flow over the coping and down the building face.

Roofing assembly : my concern here is that the leveling compound has been directly applied over the existing bituminous roof membrane. There is little or no adhesion and we have basically a floating floor/roof assembly. My concerns here are that hurricane uplift forces that affect flat roofs in high locations could actually lift the roof and send concrete and tile flying.
Keep in mind...these are my observations and questions..I could be wrong and only ask to see certified Engineers reports and specifications on such procedures.

Ceramic Tile surface : I have never seen ceramic tile installed with grout on a roof surface. I am concerned with the movement, deflection, sunlight and various weather conditions that the tile grout will crack. The expansion joints they installed do not run continuous to each end.

We have a complex situation at Coral Beach in that roofing is also a patio...we also have a complex deflection problem that must be overcome for proper storm water drainage. This is why it is imperative to consult with roofing design Engineers that are familiar with not only civil engineering but engineering and design of structures within High Velocity Wind Zones.

Marty Untch
December 20, 2007 6:43 AM

Reminder to All Owners

You must have all your accounts paid and funds cleared by December 31st in order to have your vote count at the AGM and 2008 Election for the Board.

Also, if you have still to forward your proxy for that election, ensure that you give control of that piece of paper to an Owner you trust.

If you were not at last year's election you may not recall that those attending the election were faced with three different ballot papers and the proxy forms were already in the hands of the Election Officer.

There was never a full report of the count giving shareholders the number of invalid forms rejected by the scruntineers, or the reasons for the invalidation. It would be good not to have any forms rejected this election. I have tried to find out how one indicates that one does NOT wish to vote for the 'default' seven candidates and only vote for some of the other nominees - but have not had success. The instructions on the proxy form leave one to guess. It has been suggested to me that writing "I do not wish to vote for" alongside the candidates you've decided against would be one way to make your decision clear - but such an action may invalidate the ballot paper.......Can anyone help?

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

37 days to the AGM



Gold Rock beach - a reminder of just how lovely this island is! It warmed up today and I hear that the Sheraton will be 75% occupied over the holiday season. That means Port Lucaya will be buzzing at last - it has been so quiet waiting for tourists.

The curb opposite the lobby door has been repainted bright white and I hear that work has been going on at the rear of Building 2 - but as I have had a friend visitng for the past three weeks I have not done a real walk around - tomorrow I will. And I hope to use that thermometer again......

Meanwhile Owners and their guests are checking in - pity we can't all get to meet and chat at the Pool Bar!

Questions to the Board from Steve Toth

Since you have offered so graciously to answer questions if one identifies oneself, I would appreciate your answers to the following questions. I would also like to know how our Board of Directors voted: accordingly,

* Why is Bruno Rufa's name allowed on the proxy for the 2008 AGM? He has broken Bahamian law; does that not mean anything to our Board of Directors?

* Who is our Nominating Committee? Bjorn Eustrom is only the co-ordinator for the nominations committee. When asked, he disavowed having any knowledge of anyone on the nomination committee. I will ensure that a genuine Nominations Committee in the future will be established.

* Five newly nominated candidates were added to the proxy for the 2008 AGM. This proxy was mailed to all owners without resumes, pictures, nominations, and seconds. Why were they not included when you had them in your possession?

* Which Board members voted to use our Coral Beach Hotel truck as a rental? That is what you stated in your September 27th letter. This is a bonded truck, illegal to rent and thus does not carry the proper insurance.

* Which Board members voted to discontinue the Minutes of all Board of Directors meetings? This is a legal requirement, according to the Articles.

* Mark Hardy is our Coral Beach bookkeeper; to then allow him to audit our books at Coral Beach Hotel is a conflict of interest. It creates the impression of impropriety and does not allow for independent corroboration of the numbers. Which Board members voted in support of Mr. Hardy performing both functions of bookkeeper and auditor? Who will be doing the audit this year?

* The Coral Beach Pool Bar is not going to be reopened except for special occasions. When were you planning on telling the owners at Coral Beach - when someone submitted it to the blog? Why do you want to keep this asset closed and who voted as such?

* Which Board members voted to sell off our only Coral Beach Hotel assets - Kenilworth hotel rooms and manager's apartment - at rock bottom prices and why? Who are the successful bidders on these units and the prices paid? Coral Beach owners have a right to know.

I have numerous additional questions to address to the Board of Directors, but prefer to continue an ongoing dialogue with the Board of Directors in the attempt to facilitate answers to many additional questions owners may have.

Had the Board of Directors not chosen to shut down our original Coral Beach Hotel website, the owners could have had a place to find out this pertinent information, and more, regarding the running of Coral Beach. I would like to personally thank Pat Lihou for her efforts and hard work on the Coral Beach blog. (Pat: thanks)

I will address the Treasurer's and Building and Grounds Committee Report at another time. With over 38 known units with various levels of leaks, the G7 project not living up to expectations, various pending lawsuits, Chairman of Coral Beach deported, and Articles not being adhered to; I can collectively say we are fearful of our future at Coral Beach.

My objectives are clear. I want to provide Coral Beach owners with records of accounts in the office for all to view, strategic planning for future repairs, full disclosure of an independent audit, timely minutes for all owners to view and encourage contribution of ideas. I also want to establish the necessary procedures to ensure that the bidding process on the sale of any future Coral Beach units is transparent and that ample time is given to make sure maximum sale price is obtained and as I said before, utilize many experienced volunteers for committees who are committed to Coral Beach as I am.

I have every intention of adherence to Coral Beach governing documents, in accordance with Bahamian Laws of Property and Condominium Conveyance.

We look forward to hearing from you and each Board member, individually, so all owners can make an educated and informative decision on voting at the AGM in 2008.

Regards,
Steve Toth

Questions to Board of Directors

This is a re-type of a letter sent to the Board by Maggie Vander Woude:

First of all let me say Bravo to Pat Lihou's Blog and for helping us stay connected at Coral Beach. In the Treasurer's letter you were applauding those who commit their time serving long hours to improve Coral Beach. Well, there's another name that should be added to your list. (Pat says - thank you Maggie - I believe communication is fundamental to good governance)

Yes, most owners do remain anonymous on the Blog, but that's a real easy one to figure out. If they failed to vote for you or ran against YOU or even are friendly with someone you consider 'an enemy of the people'....someone like Charmaine, they are targeted by our Board. My rental privileges have been revoked three times in the last year. Once for 'past guests attitudes and actions'. Janice McQuaid was that guest and we all know what a hell raiser she is. Was it the yoga she was doing on the patio that tipped the balance?

Last April you said 'No' to an application for my SON. Yes, that's right, my son. Three days before he was to arrive I was given approval for my son to use my condo. Call me paranoid, but doesn't this seem to have taken a rather personal turn?

In September my rental rights were revoked again (see copy of letter sent to Blog) and you asked for verification that my rental units are registered as investment property with the proper Bahamian Authorities.

Two questions for the Board.

*Who is on the Rental Committee?
*Tell me what paperwork you are looking for.

Give it a name or form number or better yet, show me a copy of the paperwork Marie Fanelli and Sandra Giorgio submitted from the proper Bahamian Authorities to Coral Beach that shows their rental business is registered. This way all of the guesswork will be removed and we (I assume all renters will be curious) can move on.

Maggie Vander Woude

Owner's response to the Treasurer's/Building & Grounds Report

I have been asked to give this comment 'front page' emphasis:

In comment to the Treasurers/Building & Grounds Report a few things come to my mind...I find it very difficult to believe that 4 bookeepers in a row have all been either " inept, inexperienced or untruthful " as quoted by our Treasurer. Usually when this high a turnover exists the problems are most likely with the persons leading the business.

He then speaks of what most Owners don't know...how would we know anything that is going on, as the communication and so called transparency has been disastrous. We have seen no BOD Meeting minutes and we don't even know who is on the Board for sure most of the time.

As a Shareholder I do not like rhetoric. I want to see facts and figures on paper..such as the receivables owed us. He also states that his recommendation will be for NO increased maintenance fees, yet the only three months Profit / Loss Statements we received reflect and operating loss every month. On what factual and printed basis does he make this statement. I am all for lower maintenance fees, but as a Shareholder I must see substantiative evidence to support such measures...that's just plain good business..

Now we find out that they are terminating the contract with the Spalling Contractor..this will I'm sure bring on yet another litigation and will most likely bring with it increased costs to have the Project completed. Where is this problem reflected in the budget report.

I also wonder why we have so many problems with sub-contractors working for us...could be like the bookeeper problem and possibly not with the sub-contractors but with the leadership..?...

We have also been told that Engineers were consulted in both the U S and on Island regarding details for the terrace roof construction and roofing. I simply ask to view the reports of the Engineers consulted as to the recommendations and specifications for such a detailed and expensive project...?....not rhetoric...facts...

I could go on and on ...but in short..I am very nervous and uneasy with the current leadership

Marty Untch 3108

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Dr Susan Roche - Questions for the Treasurer

Is Mr. Galiano sending a treasurer's report or a building and grounds committee report? Whichever it is he misses the mark on several important points. Neither Mr. Galiano nor any other member of the 2006/07 board, with the exception of Mr, Delorme, has responded in the last year and a half to any communication from this owner (e-mail, phone, letter). Because of this I write under my own name in this blog. I understand why owners would write anonymously as Mr. Rufa said to me after the 2007 AGM that this is his year for revenge. Mr. Galiace our questions are not about maintenance fees. The BOD minutes of 18 Jan.05 report $690,000 in CDs and $116,571.00(B) plus $57,057.00(US)in cash. BOD minutes of 14 Jan.05 report a hurricane settlement offer of 767,115.60. This claim was reported to be re-opened in the 6 Feb. 05 BOD minutes. Was there even a greater insurance settlement as Mr. Rufa hinted at in 2006 Open Forums? Now to top it off, we add a special assessment of $800,00.00. This gives owners a grand total of $2,430,743.60!! An amount of money with which to work no previous BOD has EVER had. This is what we want accounted for; and articles DEMAND that DIRECTORS keep these records and have yearly audits and make these records availables to owners.The special assessment was for spalling, painting, A/C,and guttering. This work is incomplete. Are these the large projects there is not funds for? G-7's bid, 14 Nov.'05, was for $372,000.00 and in the BOD minutes of 13 Jan.'06 the BOD set aside $150,000.00 for materials for this project. Where went the remaining$1,908,743.60?This does not include our regular maintenance fees and hotel room sales.Susan Roche

Monday, December 17, 2007

May be squally here, but.......


Ted Mulvihill sends me this picture to remind us of just why we choose to spend time at Coral Beach. Have a thought for our President who is having to cope with at least an extra foot of the white stuff in nearby Maple, Ontario.
It is worth trawling through recent comments as many Owners are responding to the financial statements. I also see that I have just received the Treasurer's report by email.

Sunday, December 16, 2007

Saturday, December 15, 2007

41 days to the AGM

Here we are 41 days before the AGM and the Board has still not sent out information about any of the candidates whose names they have printed on the proxy forms for use at the election to be held after the AGM on 26th January 2008.

Certainly Owners have no information about who nominated and seconded the 2007 Board members that are named as candidates for the 2008 Board, and certainly one Board Member - David Salvisberg - has no previous experience on the Board and has never been nominated before. Unless you have actually been at Coral Beach in the past couple of months you probably don't know who he is, let alone what his background is! Further, there are rumours going around that at least one Board member may not be standing for election even though his name is on the proxy form, and if yet another existing Board member (whose name is also on the proxy form) is to be believed, another 2007 Board member may not stand in the 2008 election.

If the other 'outside' 5 candidates had not ensured that I had the information to put on the blog, Owners would only have a list of names on the proxy form. Owners should also remember that some shareholders did not receive information from the Board about sending nominations to the Front Office until after the cut off date had dis-enfranchised them.

With the delays, uncertainties and confusion surrounding this nomination procedure, one may ask if there is a need for a nominating commitee, if in fact there is one. Just nominate from the floor and forgo the pre-printed proxies! Then at least Owners might see the need for proper authentication of those proxies.

You will note that I have not yet mentioned the fact that the President of the Board may not be allowed to return to the Island for the forseeable future and I find it astounding that the other Members of the Board do not consider this fact of sufficient importance to advise Owners of their contingency plans should the President not be present at the AGM.

Thursday, December 13, 2007

Interesting comment I have put on hold!

Whoever you are, could you contact me privately in absolute confidence on email? sarnian22@hotmail.com - or call on 1-242-373-3774. Pat

Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Financial Information delivered today

Good news - Mark Hardy has circulated some financial information today. I hope that those Owners amongst us who have skills in analysing the figures will give their view of the financial state of Coral Beach Hotel and related companies. I am certain that many Owners would appreciate their professional opinions.

At this point I do not know who has received the information and in what form it is being sent to Owners. I wait to hear if I should post it on email.

To re-size the scanned documents

Very easy - just click on the image itself!

Additional Letter attached to Mark Lampf's resume


Lot 4 and scan of GBPA letter




For those Owners who can re-size these documents, you will see that Lot 4 is adjacent to Lot 3 directly behind Coral Beach Hotel (lot numbers 31 and 32) - Lot 3 now being generally referred to as the 'sand pit'. On the map to the left you will see CBH zoned in mid-brown at the immediate edge of the white area that is zoned for single family housing along Lucayan Beach. Directly between the rear of the CBH zone on to Royal Palm Way you will see 6 plots marked for single family housing.
Owners will recall the initial response to this purchase from the incoming 2005 Board. As an Owner has commented to me "It might be interesting for people to read (the GBPA letter) since it proves his"intention" to spend funds in a fashion not approved by the "whole condominium" "society", and when funds are extremely low, even though his intent was probably to get the"gold" out and replace it with rock. Amazing to try to take that course of action when the previous purchase caused such an uproar!! " I have already re-typed the GBPA letter in full but some Owners may wish to see the letter for themselves.

Waiting on 7 more Nominations

45 days to go to the AGM and the 'preferred' 'default' candidates for the 2008 Board of Directors have yet to supply Owners with the information that they, as the 2007 Board, requested from all candidates. One rule for all?

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Resume from Tyrone Anderson

Tyrone Anderson, Apt. 2716, Coral Beach
A permanent resident of Coral Beach with over 25 years of experience in financial planning, budgeting & auditing for Resort Hotel Marina Condominium and community associations.

Special emphasis on Banking, Government & Port Authority related issues, licenses, permits, Central Bank and fostering good relationships with the business community.

If elected by the shareholders, I would focus on audit controls, profit & loss and budget presentations.

Reference:
Old Bahama Bay: re Mr. Tyrone L. Anderson
9th November 2007
We are pleased to provide this letter of reference for Mr. Anderson, who is presently employed by West End Resort, Limited d/b/a Old Bahama Bay at Ginn sur Mer. He joined our employ during September 2005 and serves in the capacity of Financial Controller.

Tyrone is trustworthy, reliable and of general good character. He is hard-working and does whatever it takes to successfully complete a task. He has a pleasant personality and works well with people.

We recommend him to you for your consideration. Please advise if you require additional information.

Sincerely,
OLD BAHAMA BAY
Annie J Beckles, Director of Administrative Services.

Nominated by Donald Pecora and seconded by George Turner
Police Record also supplied.

As before, these are re-typed papers and any errors or omissions are mine - Pat

Two more resumes: Mark Lampf & Donald Pecora

Mark Lampf: Certified Public Accountant,
4 Richard Road, Edison, New Jersey 08820

Work experience: 1981 - Present
Rich, Gelwarg & Lampf LLP, CPAs - Edison, NJ 08817
Managing Partner
Servicing Clients throughout the United States: namely, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Florida, Colorado and California
Services: Preparation of Personal & Corporate Income Tax Returns; Audits; Certified, Reviewed and Compilation Financial Statements; Consulting, Tax Planning and Estate Planning

1978 - 1981 Rich, Gelwarg & Company - Hillside, NJ 07205
Staff Accountant Responsibilities included the full servicing of clinets

1975-1978 Freeman, Jaconson & Sher, CAPs Staff Accountant

Education 1980 - Master of Business Administration - Fairleigh Dickinson University
1975 - Bachelor of Science in Business Administration - University of Hartford

Personal: Married and father of four. Hobbies include photography, traveling, swimming and coaching various sports; Member of the AICPA and NJSPCA

Other: President of Durham Center Office Condominium Association, Past President and Trustee of the Anchorage Condominium Association.

Nomination forwarded to CBH by Allan & Nancy Davidson on October 29th, 2007 and supported by email on November 6th by Maggie VanderWoude.

************************************
Donald H Pecora: 150 Brackett Road, Rye, NH 03870 242 374 5420 C: 603 828 1191 DHP123@verizon.net
Thursday November 15th, 2007

Nominating Committee, Jennifer Campbell, Coral Beach
Re: Nomination for Board of Directors
Dear Ms Campbell and Nominating Committee

Enclosed please find my nomination, second and photograph and resume for nomination for the Board of Directors at Coral Beach.

My parents started coming to Coral Beach in the mid 1970's. I started visiting Coral Beach with my family and immediately fell in love with the friendly, family oriented atmosphere.

We purchased our unit 2006. I was looking forward to being part of this community of old friends as well as new ones. I also hoped that our condominium would be a good investment with the potential to appreciate.

I will work for and with my fellow board members to bring honesty and integrity to Coral Beach.

As a director I would be open and responsive to the owners of Coral Beach in a truthful, cooperative and positive manner.

I am fortunate to be able to spend long periods of time in the Bahamas and I have the desire and the willingness to be of service to this community, enhancement of our mutual enjoyment of our great facilities and the long term preservation of our investments.

Sincerely,
Donald Pecora

1952 - Birth; 1970 - Graduated Manhasset HS, Manhasset NY; 1974 Graduated Lehigh University, Bethlehem PA - BA, International Relations; 1975 to 1980 - Purchased, Renovated and Operated multiple apartment Rental units; 1978 to 1986 - Owner Operator of "Entrances Inc", Custom Door and Window Manufacturer; 1982 to Present - Realtor for NH Board of Realtors; 1986 to Present - NH Certified General Commercial Real Estate Appraiser NHCG148; 1996 to 2005 - Principal, Donald H Pecora, Real Estate Valuation and Consulting; 2005 to Present - Semi-retired, Aspiring Photographer.

Volunteer Work: Odyssey of the Mind for Elementary school children 5 years; Portsmouth HS Ski club 12 yrs; Member of the Board of Directors and served on Finance Committee and Building Committee for Strawbery Banke Historical Museum, Portsmouth NH 3 years; Publicist for Edwin Booth Theater, Dover, NH 5 years; Guest Teacher/Education for Bahamas BTVI School, 2 yrs; Photographer for Grand Bahama Humane Society, 3 yrs.

Nominated by Tyrone Anderson and seconded by Geoff Baker on November 15th 2007.

*****************************
These papers have been re-typed by me, Pat Lihou, and any errors and omissions are mine.

Monday, December 10, 2007

Bits and pieces of info

Last night we had some heavy rain. The new chutes above us worked brilliantly, no water ran down the front of the building but anyone who happened to be standing in the garden patio below would certainly have had a water pressure treatment! Geoff went to look at the experimental terrace on Building 3. The water from the small overhang above the terrace was not siphoned off along the shallow gutter to the front scupper box, rather it overflowed all the way along the side of the terrace, some water ran down the stairs to the terrace below and some overflowed above the sliding door on that facade. At the front edge of the terrace there was a large pool forming with water overflowing at the front and some water running along the shallow gutter to the left hand downspout. None made it to the right hand side. Geoff will check it out when we next have rain in the daytime and take some photos for everyone's information. The experiment continues......

Today we visited the Lucayan National Park and happened to sit on a bench at the beach where a Bahamian man, on finding that we stayed at Coral Beach Hotel, commented that he had heard that CBH only has $200,000 and is in real trouble. As you may well imagine, this comment came as a surprise and no doubt there must be many such statements being taken as gospel by various residents of Freeport. I found the whole event worrying. I have also been reminded of a letter sent to the Treasurer from the GBPA in which an offer on land was made and rejected. Has the Board invested in land or property this year? With no Minutes of Board Meetings it is impossible for Owners to know. However, given that the intent to purchase land earlier this year is obvious, I feel it is appropriate that shareholders should have sight of the response from the GBPA.

The Grand Bahama Port Authority, Limited

Facsimile 373-5140
2nd May, 2007
Mr. Philip Galiano, Director & Treasurer
Coral Beach Management Company Limited
P O Box F 42468
Freeport, Grand Bahama

Dear Mr. Galiano
RE: Lot 4, Lucayan Beach West, Freeport, Grand Bahama

Further to our letter of 24th April 2007 please be advised Management has declined to accept the offer embodied therein. Moreover, the hereditaments have been withdrawn from the market until revisions to the subdivision master plan have been completed.

We will inform you of any changes in position.

Very sincerely yours,
THE GRAND BAHAMA PORT AUTHORITY, LIMITED
David E. Jennette
Director of Corporate Affairs
cc Executive Management
DEJ:nl/PC034-160-001

Finally, and to give you something the cheer about, today we saw two Island Emerald hummingbirds in the coppice area at Gold Rock Creek - they quite made my day. Now if all the money raised last Friday at Festive Noel gets put to re-building the bridge across the creek......

Sunday, December 9, 2007

Sitting on a perch at Taino Beach today


Another wonderful day - and finally some information for Owners. When I receive anything more from the other Candidates I will post them.
The temperature in the ocean and pool remain unchanged from Friday.
47 days to go to the AGM...............

Resume & Letter to owners from Steve Toth

As with the previous posting, I have re-typed Steve Toth's resume and letter so any errors or omissions are mine - Pat

Steve Toth, 3 Country Road, Mamaroneck, New York, 10543

OBJECTIVE
The life of any Condominium is dependent on its Board of Directors. The vision at Coral Beach coincides with my own vision. To serve our Board of Directors with a high level of dedication, professionalism, personal time and energy, expertise and service that is unparalleled. As former renters for the last five years, my wife and I are proud to be owners at Coral Beach. I look forward to a team approach to solving all problems.

SUMMARY OF QUALIFICATIONS
A hands-on professional with over 32 years of diversified and progressive high voltage electrical experience in the Power Department of Metro North Railroad. Excellent interpersonal and communication skills utilized to build a strong rapport with over 45 individuals that I presently supervise. A very strong negotiator, problem solver and decision maker.

EMPLOYMENT HISTORY
A general supervisor at Metro North Rail Road I am responsible for a staff of 45 employees. I work with individuals at all levels of upper management to union personnel. I work in Public Sector Business where I am accountable for ensuring compliance with local, state and federal regulations. As a skilled negotiator working with various vendors, I am able to bring in capital-funded projects within budget and on time.

For ten years, I was Chairman of the Regional Safety Committee in Stamford, presenting recommendations and insuring compliance to all safety rules and regulations.

SUMMARY
As owners we need to be informed and educated regarding financials, up coming projects, budget and capital improvement issues. I understand that relationships with owners extend beyond results and owner satisfaction, and stretches into loyalty. I would like to assure you that I have the desire, skills and experience to fulfill the scope of responsibilities for this position. I look forward to serving on the Board of Directors if I am elected.

HELLO TO ALL OWNERS AT CORAL BEACH HOTEL
I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself to all Coral Beach Owners: my name is Steve Toth and I am running for the 2008 Board of Directors of Coral Beach Hotel. My wife Rose and I first started spending time at Coral Beach approximately 7-8 years ago, when we rented from several owners as often as we could. As must be the case with most people who have purchased condos there, my family and I fell in love with not only Grand Bahama, but especially the warm and friendly atmosphere at Coral Beach Hotel - not to mention the beautiful beach front. What a paradise! Rose and I often talked about retirement and where we could see oursleves living for 5-6 months out of the year. It was very clear to us that Coral Beach would be the ideal place. When the timing was right several years ago, we decided to buy. My motivation for running for the Board is to restore the warm and friendly atmosphere that had attracted us to Coral Beach in the first place, as well as to ensure that the improvements continue.

My job is very flexible and I have the ability to spend a great deal of time at Coral Beach during the year. I plan to dedicate that time, solely, to insuring that our investments are well protected.

Trust is critical when it comes to as Board of Directors. In order to insure trust from you as an owner, a new Board of Directors must keep you apprised of both current and future situations while working hard toward our common goals.
  • This will require a Board of Directors meetings being made available to all owners on our web site and through the mailing of the minutes with our monthly statements.
  • Quarterly financials will be made with our monthly statements, so owners do not have to assume or guess at the financial health of the association.
  • Capital projects will be budgeted monthly so you will know where your cash flow stands. No surprises at year end.
  • We have so many skilled and knowledgeable owners at Coral Beach that I am sure Coral Beach will become the envy of all other Condominiums on Grand Bahama. We should utilize these veteran owners and their qualifications where needed. Many owners have already identified themselves to me, as ready, willing and able to get involved in future projects.

The future vision for Coral Beach should be both positive and achievable - a vision shared by all owners. At this time we have numerous major issues with our buildings. I have many great ideas for improvements for the present and future, and will be available to talk about them at the AGM, or to you individually as an owner, when I arrive in early January.

I ask you for your support, and if you cannot make the AGM, I will be happy to take your proxies with me. Please mail them to me, along with a copy of your picture ID. My address is as follows:

Steve Toth, 3 Country Road, Mamaroneck, New Yor, 10543

If you should have questions and I can be of help, my email address is sctoth@aol.com. Please just identify yourself, as well as your unit. Or, if you prefer a phone call, include your phone number and I will call you back.

Going into the AGM, it is important that you understand my background; therefore I am including my resume for your review. We all have a lot at stake here. This is not just a paradise for a few, but for all owners at Coral Beach.

Again, I thank you for your support.

Regards,

Steve Toth

Resume & Letter to owners from Dr Susan Roche

I have re-typed this letter so any erroros and omission are my fault - Pat
Plus: Dr. Roche's nomination was signed by Lees Groulx and seconded by Steve Toth and Ted Mulvihill.

Goals for my work with the Board
My main goal is to return peace and harmony to our community of Coral Beach. In addition I believe in a timely flow of relevant facts between owners and the Board. This condo community includes numerous professionals and people with expertise in a variety of fields - I believe that all owners should be given the choice to contribute to their community in ways such as committees. Also that we function at our best with full committees.

I bring to the Board the following skills and focus:
  • an understanding of our governing documents and legal proceedings. In the last year, at my own expense I have spent much time with three Bahamian lawyers, to this end. In addition, I have 'learned at my father's feet" as he was a director from 1983-1989 and took time to share this experience with me. Also, I have more than average experience in working with legal matters, including providing reports to judges and providing expert witness testimony;
  • a resolve to keep Coral Beach on a solid financial basis. This would include reserve funds to cover expenses such as hurricane repairs; and, short term and long term organizational planning. (example: replacement of the sewage plant)
  • a focus on a plan to develop the properties of the condo as well as maintain the current properties;
  • commitment to bring forward the needs and concerns of Coral Beach condo owners;
  • demand quality assurance of work performed for maintenance and repairs;
  • integrity to adhere to the duties of a director as outlined in "The Articles, "Amendment(s)", and 2004 Governance Committee Report
  • I have made myself officially 'part-time' so that I may be ready to meet any possible new time demands.

Personal experience with the Coral Beach Hotel

I have been coming to the Bahamas since 1968 and to Coral Beach since the early 1970's. My father, Louis Krygsman, bought his condo in the mid-1970's and was Chairman in 1986. My Mother, Audrey Krygsman, deceased 18 August 1995, served as a vote counter and on the Elections Committee. I have been an owner since 2004. On October 31, 2004 I was married at Coral Beach. The Bahamas is 'home' to me; I have had 17 moves. I wish to pass on this legacy to my daughter who loves our community, and my grandchild.

Professional Experience

I received my Honours BA in English and Religion from Carleton University and a Bachelor of Education from the University of Toronto. I taught English, art and religion at the high school level in Toronto (Ontario), Victoria (British Columbia), and Halifax (Nova Scotia). While in Halifax I taught financial courses, as the Eastern Nova Scotia Militia District Controller, to officers and rewrote one of the military financial manuals. In total I spent 6 years teaching and was licensed in 3 provinces.

I pursued my science courses while in British Columbia and Novas Scotia, completing my MD at Dalhousie University. I completed my Psychiatric residency at the Royal Ottowa Hospital and received my FRCPC in 1989. Immediately after this, I joined the staff of the ROH as a Clinical Rehab Coordinator. During this period I was also an Assistant Professor with the Department of Medicine at the University of Ottowa. Next and until 1991 I was the Assistant Head of the Family Court Clinic for the Department of Forensic Psychiatry. In 1991 I began my solo practise in psychiatry. I continue to conduct research and work with various agencies presenting workshops on depression and front-line treatment of dissociative disorder. I have also been the liaison for the Rideauwood Families Program and worked with the House of Hope.

Committees

I have chaired the clinical co-ordinating committee of CB-5. Also I have been a member of the Forensic Committee at the ROH and the PUC Committee. I was a member of the communications committee (OMA), my division, in the late 1990's. I have membership with: The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of ON, OMA, CMPA, CPA, the College of Physicians and Surgeons of B.C. (temporary hold).

Please do not hesitate to contact me on any question or matter that may arise. I have an 'open door' policy.

48 Cooper Street, Ottowa, ON, K1R 5H9 613-234-6511/613 266 4840

#1416/14 Coral Beach, Freeport, Grand Bahama 242 374 3953 (phone & fax) 242 646 5344

yototll@sympatico.ca

Friday, December 7, 2007

Fallin spallin....


Today I finally did notice a bit of the newly installed concrete edging had fallen off. This photo was taken of the garden side of Building 1, about mid-section of the building.
I saw this as I was on my way to the beach with the thermometer - and I can report that the ambient temperature in the shade was 76f as was the sea water temperature. The temp in the pool was a whisker under 74f. I put the thermometer in the flow of water coming into the pool but could not get any improvement on the reading.
As you know I live on the 6th floor of Building 2 and today there has been lots of action carrying sliders and screens up to the penthouse, so refurbishment must be underway up top. Be good to see the tatty railings replaced too. The flashing and guttering has been done on the front two terraces together with the water chutes.
David and Jacques have been getting their exercises walking the halls double checking all the lighting, as well as all the other bits and pieces they are fixing. The Nelson's lock man was at the Front Door today discussing the door locks with Management and our two trusty Board Members.
Tonight is Festive Noel at the Rand Nature Centre - tickets are sold out at Bristol Cellars and John Bull - I hope they have some left at the door tonight - it will be crowded!

50 days to the AGM

As of today, December 7th, 2007, Owners have not received any information about the Nominees for the AGM other than a list of names - and of those, only the 5 candidates not already on the Board have had their proposers and seconders names published. NOT by the Board of course, but informally, via this blog. This means that even these details may not be correct. I have just spoken to Bjorn Eustrom who said that he was NOT the Nominating Committee but the Nomination Co-Ordinator and as such was not able to give out any information regarding the nominations for any of the candidates. The circulation of that information will come from the Board when the Directors so decide


There seems to be a real lack of respect due to Owners as far as this Board is concerned . The Board is witholding information about their preferred Nominees, has not circulated AGM supporting documents and, most importantly, HAS NOT ADDRESSED OF THE FACT THAT A BOARD CANDIDATE HAS BEEN DEPORTED FROM THE ISLAND. History shows that the reversal of such a decision by the Immigration Authorities is extremely rare if, in fact, it has ever happened at all. This matter has been ongoing since early September. The only mention of this fact in the past 8 or so weeks has been a reference in the Nov. 22nd Update where, in essence, Bruno Rufa asks for Owners support in the Coral Beach Hotel election in order to try and justify a reversal of that Government decision as their votes will show that " his efforts at Coral Beach are well supported by the shareholders". Owners who have checked the facts as reported in the Freeport News will see that Bruno Rufa's deportation had nothing to do with Coral Beach Hotel. The deportation was a direct result of Mr. Rufa's actions relating to his own personal business involvement on the Island.


50 days from the AGM and there is no Treasurer's report, no agenda and no information for Owners to study prior to using their shareholders' entitlements in the election of Board members. I put this complaint to the other 5 candidates also. Every owner should by now have a clear idea of what skills and priorities each candidate will bring to the table. Owners need to know each candidates' views regarding the general improvement of Coral Beach Hotel facilities, how they plan for the completion of the SPG contract, the replacement of the sewage plant; what their future proposals are regarding the Pool Bar, Gym, Salon, Convenience Store, Car Parking & Storage etc.; their proposals for an on-going maintenance programme for the entire complex both inside and out and how it can be funded; their policies on Registration Charges, Short and Long Term Rentals, Maintenance Fee Defaults, Sale of Common Property, and the list goes on and on.

Why do I get the feeling that no-one is taking the future of Coral Beach Hotel seriously? To paraphrase, Owners will get the Board they deserve.

Tuesday, December 4, 2007

Completed list of known nominations and seconders

Steve Toth: Nom: Frank Bonvarlez Sec: Reggie Flur
Mark Lampf: Nom: Maggie VanderWoude Sec: Allan Davidson
Dr. Susan Roche: Nom: Steve Toth Sec: Ted Mulvihill
Don Pecora: Nom: Tyrone Anderson Sec: Geoff Baker
Tyrone Anderson: Nom: Don Pecora Sec: George Turner

I have no information on any other Nominees.

The water in the pool was definitely warmer than the ocean today - after another couple of calm and sunny days. I am still looking for a thermometer!

Sunset yesterday


It was a beautiful day.....

Monday, December 3, 2007

An Owner reminds all that the facts are available

No doubt, we were all taught by our teachers and professors to never believe everything we read until we take the time to check the facts. Now the Owners at Coral Beach have a new website that makes fact checking very easy. This new website, www.coral-beach-hotel.com contains archives of previous years' Board minutes, AGM minutes, President's Reports and governing documents. Read them over to familiarize yourself with decisions made by past Boards, as well as our governing documents. Please take the time to check it out and, more importantly, take the time to verify that what you are being told is, in fact, accurate. The future of our Coral Beach depends on well informed Owners.

Owners - PLEASE NOTE - IMPORTANT

The statements have been sent out over the weekend. The President's Report and proxy form have just been circulated too. For Owners , especially those that receive paperwork via the regular post, I want to highlight the fact that for proxies to count "the Owner's account(s) must be current AND FUNDS CLEARED as of December 31, 2007". This does not give much time to Owners.

Further, although the proxy form says that the proxy may be returned to Coral Beach, it is NOT OBLIGATORY - and so I would suggest to Owners that in order to ensure a 'personal eye' is kept on the proxy, that you send it to an Owner you trust to follow your instructions and if you are actually completing the form, then to send it to that Owner you trust together with a copy of your picture ID so that signatures can be easily verified.

Every vote is an important vote, so make certain it counts!

An Owner's View

Thanks so much for your letter informing me of the issues at Coral Beach. I don’t personally know Mr. Bruno or Mr. Phil, but I do know that I have been coming to Coral Beach for twenty seven years, and this is the first administration who made significant improvements. Prior to this , Coral Beach looked like a run down motel and I had decided to sell my condo. It was only after I saw these improvements that I decided not to sell,
I am so very saddened by what has happened. This Board has done an excellent job of taking Coral Beach to another level. I would certainly vote for this entire board again. We must never allow anyone to take advantage of us because we are not Bahamians. I have great respect for this board who stood up for what is right and just.
Coral Beach , for the first time, was on the right management track, and I hope that we can continue to make improvements as our property values are at stake.
I think that we should vote this entire board back in to show support
Please keep me informed, and no matter what happens, we cannot go back to what Coral Beach was three years ago. I often wondered what happened to all of the $$$$ that came through Coral Beach, and yet there was never monies available to any improvements. We must keep this board!
Please continue to keep everyone informed.

Sunday, December 2, 2007

Nominations

I have no information regarding proposers or seconders as far as Bruno Rufa, Jacques Delorme, Phil Galiano, Lorna Taylor, Rick Morandini, Jerry Illerbrun or David Salvisburg are concerned.

My information on the other nominations is as follows:

Dr Susan ROCHE (note spelling): Nominated by Lees Groulx, seconder ?
Tyrone Anderson: Nominated by Donald Pecora, seconded by George Turner
Mark Lampf: Nominated by Maggie Vanderwoude, seconder ?
Steve Toth: Nominated by Frank Bonvarlez, seconded by Reggie Flur
Donald Pecora: Nominated by Tyrone Anderson, seconded by Geoff Baker

A close study of the proxy form states that "the present Board of Directors/candidates "will be voted "for" at the meeting unless otherwise directed" and goes on to list the 7 'officially recommended' candidates.

The subsequent list of the 5 other candidates is preceded by "may be voted 'for' at the meeting unless otherwise directed".

Owners must be very clear as to whom they ARE voting for, especially if they choose not to vote for a full 7 candidates. Owners must also make clear whom they are NOT voting for - the problem is the Governance Committee report to the Board dated November 1st, 2004 gave instructions to put an x in the square alongside the chosen candidates ensuring no more than 7 are chosen, but this years form states 'your vote will count if you check the box of any candidate
up to a total of seven".

I don't mean to be picky but is an x the same as a check? And is a check a tick? Would the proxy votes count if the candidates one was NOT voting for were crossed out completely? What are the criteria that cause a proxy form to become unacceptable? How can Owners get the Board to clarify the position so that no mis-understandings occur?

Saturday, December 1, 2007

President, proxy and party

Today a group of Owners received an email with the President's Report for the 2008 AGM attached together with a proxy form. This evening I have forwarded it to all Owners be email and I trust everyone will receive them properly.

Of great interest is the revelation that the Letter from the Board dated November 22nd but circulated on November 27th was incorrect. In that Letter from the Board Owners were advised that the 2007 Board would be standing in its entirety. Here we are on December 1st being told that one Board member on that list was replaced in early November and that David Salvisburg is now a Board Member.

Supporting documentation has yet to be circulated. Owners need to know who nominated and seconded each nominee and to have sight of both the resume and photo of each nominee, including the present Board members, especially Mr Salvisburg of whom many of us know very little. Owners also need to have sight of the proposed Agenda for the 2008 AGM so that, if necessary, they could submit a motion for debate if the Board has not indicated that subject will be discussed.

I have not had time to consider the President's report in depth yet but on a first quick run through there seems to be no reference to future plans and their prioritisation and no time frame for the completion of outstanding projects around the complex such as the SPG contract or the cabling/wiring channeling or the repairs to the airways in Building 3. In fact, it seems that as 'seeking compensation for breach of contract' on the SPG contract is now underway, the completion of the work recedes even further into the distance.

Just off the top of my head, some previous proposals raised in Owners Forums last winter by the President and/or Treasurer covered:
  1. the interior redecoration of all the upper floor corridors,
  2. the tiling of the ground floors of Buildings 1 and 2,
  3. the building of extra storage areas in the airways of Buildings 1 and 2,
  4. access ramps and planters at the entrance at the side of Building 2 (plans drawn up)
  5. the incorporation of the Key Club and Conference Room into one room with the development of a patio/garden seating area at the rear
  6. the use of polycarbonate sheeting to give shelter to the pool area

just to name some of the improvements that Owners were led to expect would be introduced at some point. It would be useful to know if any of these proposals are still in favour with this Board and what level of priority they would give each one in the light of the funding requirements. In addition, the replacement of the sewage plant was given a good deal of 'forum' time and figures were produced showing substantial savings on the water bills at CBH which would benefit all shareholders. Will Owners be consulted and informed about this major improvement and the time line for it's installation?

Putting the AGM business to one side, let me say that the pot luck party down by the Pool this evening was good. A lot of Owners in residence turned up and there was some excellent food! The balmy evening helped the ambience too. A perfect spot to watch dusk turn into evening. I am sure that Jacques and David, both being so sociable, will be eager to see such a pleasant gathering happen again soon.

I have been told that for those interested in reading Minutes of Board Meetings over the past few years, you can find them on the 'archive' web site - www.coral-beach-hotel.com

And finally for this evening, we have had two lovely sunny days with very little breeze and the solar heating system is definitely warming the inflow water into the pool by a couple of degrees. I am still on the lookout for a thermometer so I can be more accurate. I think that on breezy days the system just cannot cope and so the pool does not get much, if any, benefit.